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	<title>Comments on: We can&#8217;t go on like this. Cut the deficit obsession, not the deficit.</title>
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	<link>http://brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2010/01/we-cant-go-on-like-this-cut-the-deficit-obsession-not-the-deficit/</link>
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		<title>By: Ian Baxter</title>
		<link>http://brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2010/01/we-cant-go-on-like-this-cut-the-deficit-obsession-not-the-deficit/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Baxter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brightgreenscotland.org/?p=118#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Hi Gary,

The Keynesian argument is well rehearsed. And yes, we are a party of the left, but that doesn&#039;t mean we follow the mantra of unsustainable borrowing practiced by many on the far left. For me it&#039;s all about changing the priorities followed so monotonously by mainstream parties. As I say, quality of life is the measure we should use, not GDP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Gary,</p>
<p>The Keynesian argument is well rehearsed. And yes, we are a party of the left, but that doesn&#8217;t mean we follow the mantra of unsustainable borrowing practiced by many on the far left. For me it&#8217;s all about changing the priorities followed so monotonously by mainstream parties. As I say, quality of life is the measure we should use, not GDP.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Dunion</title>
		<link>http://brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2010/01/we-cant-go-on-like-this-cut-the-deficit-obsession-not-the-deficit/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Dunion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brightgreenscotland.org/?p=118#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Casual reader or not, Peter &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; suggesting higher spending - for very sound economic reasons.  In a recession, consumers spend less. That makes perfect sense for every family and they&#039;re right to do so.

But the combined effect of those kitchen-table decisions is to collapse total spending and this leads to a downward spiral of unemployment and recession, unless the government steps in to replace some of that economic activity.

This is why all but economic illiterates like the Tories realise that you do not cut in a recession. Even Alistair Darling knows this, he&#039;s just too politically timid to say so because he thinks the electorate are so bewitched by Cameron that they could never possibly believe he&#039;s got it wrong.

Peter is not necessarily proposing higher taxes. Borrowing is not inherently unsustainable, and our public borrowing is still not even that high by historic standards. Take into consideration that a huge portion of that borrowing is not revenue loans for intangible spending - like teachers&#039; pay - but in fact a mortgage on bank equity which has a substantial and rising market value of its own, and you start to see that news of our fiscal demise has been greatly exaggerated.

You may be right to say that surpluses ought to have been run higher during more successful years, but cutting to deal with that now would be like installing fire alarms in the ashes of your house. And the failure to run up surpluses has been in no way severe enough to preclude a sensible, stimulus-based response to this recession.

One final point, which may be my most contentious - the Greens are a party of the left. Pretending otherwise is not only intellectually dishonest but also, in a country with no other viable party of the left, a massive wasted opportunity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Casual reader or not, Peter <em>is</em> suggesting higher spending &#8211; for very sound economic reasons.  In a recession, consumers spend less. That makes perfect sense for every family and they&#8217;re right to do so.</p>
<p>But the combined effect of those kitchen-table decisions is to collapse total spending and this leads to a downward spiral of unemployment and recession, unless the government steps in to replace some of that economic activity.</p>
<p>This is why all but economic illiterates like the Tories realise that you do not cut in a recession. Even Alistair Darling knows this, he&#8217;s just too politically timid to say so because he thinks the electorate are so bewitched by Cameron that they could never possibly believe he&#8217;s got it wrong.</p>
<p>Peter is not necessarily proposing higher taxes. Borrowing is not inherently unsustainable, and our public borrowing is still not even that high by historic standards. Take into consideration that a huge portion of that borrowing is not revenue loans for intangible spending &#8211; like teachers&#8217; pay &#8211; but in fact a mortgage on bank equity which has a substantial and rising market value of its own, and you start to see that news of our fiscal demise has been greatly exaggerated.</p>
<p>You may be right to say that surpluses ought to have been run higher during more successful years, but cutting to deal with that now would be like installing fire alarms in the ashes of your house. And the failure to run up surpluses has been in no way severe enough to preclude a sensible, stimulus-based response to this recession.</p>
<p>One final point, which may be my most contentious &#8211; the Greens are a party of the left. Pretending otherwise is not only intellectually dishonest but also, in a country with no other viable party of the left, a massive wasted opportunity.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Baxter</title>
		<link>http://brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2010/01/we-cant-go-on-like-this-cut-the-deficit-obsession-not-the-deficit/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Baxter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brightgreenscotland.org/?p=118#comment-21</guid>
		<description>All very well but a tad simplistic, Peter. We increased spending on education - and it went into increasing teachers&#039; pay (albeit back to 1976 levels in real terms); we increased spending in NHS (with NIC rise) and it went on financial consultants, not medical ones. we also need to be aware that long term borrowing is  unsustainable, and sustainability is what we&#039;re all about, isn&#039;t it?

Rather than sounding like tax &#039;n&#039; spend lefties (which is what a casual reader would take from your article), I would concentrate on changing priorities. Let&#039;s cut spending ... on foreign wars, Trident, non-renewables. Let&#039;s invest for the future in renewables, loft insulation and affordable council housing. Quality of life is what we aim to improve and spending priorities must reflect that and not get caught up in a right/left spat.

My real grouse with Brown was he spent, and went on spending when we were not in recession but were booming. Sustainable? At that time we should have been repaying debt, though not many on the left were saying that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All very well but a tad simplistic, Peter. We increased spending on education &#8211; and it went into increasing teachers&#8217; pay (albeit back to 1976 levels in real terms); we increased spending in NHS (with NIC rise) and it went on financial consultants, not medical ones. we also need to be aware that long term borrowing is  unsustainable, and sustainability is what we&#8217;re all about, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>Rather than sounding like tax &#8216;n&#8217; spend lefties (which is what a casual reader would take from your article), I would concentrate on changing priorities. Let&#8217;s cut spending &#8230; on foreign wars, Trident, non-renewables. Let&#8217;s invest for the future in renewables, loft insulation and affordable council housing. Quality of life is what we aim to improve and spending priorities must reflect that and not get caught up in a right/left spat.</p>
<p>My real grouse with Brown was he spent, and went on spending when we were not in recession but were booming. Sustainable? At that time we should have been repaying debt, though not many on the left were saying that.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Ramsay</title>
		<link>http://brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2010/01/we-cant-go-on-like-this-cut-the-deficit-obsession-not-the-deficit/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Ramsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 04:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brightgreenscotland.org/?p=118#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Tom, yeah, I know. The &#039;household economics&#039; language is one of those things that really annoys me about all of this. And yes, it is quite difficult to talk about. But when you make the debate about public spending cuts, people get that. And when you say cutting spending will lead to unemployment and so deepen the recession, people sort of get that, so I think it is possible for people to get the broader ideas, if we can find the right language...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, yeah, I know. The &#8216;household economics&#8217; language is one of those things that really annoys me about all of this. And yes, it is quite difficult to talk about. But when you make the debate about public spending cuts, people get that. And when you say cutting spending will lead to unemployment and so deepen the recession, people sort of get that, so I think it is possible for people to get the broader ideas, if we can find the right language&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Chance</title>
		<link>http://brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2010/01/we-cant-go-on-like-this-cut-the-deficit-obsession-not-the-deficit/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Chance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 15:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brightgreenscotland.org/?p=118#comment-19</guid>
		<description>All good stuff, but getting that message across is incredibly difficult. Arguing that the deficit isn&#039;t that disastrous is complicated, for example:

http://tom.acrewoods.net/2010/01/04/a-dangerous-and-remarkable-delusion

People much prefer to think of government finances like household finances. You want to get rid of your debts pronto, and any more spending will just make stuff worse.

Darren Johnson wrote a piece for CiF recently about London&#039;s economy, and got harangued by comments focused on his proposals for spending:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/21/boris-bankers-city-london

Getting the argument across quickly, and in a way that makes sense to the average person who isn&#039;t going to spend a lot of time thinking your argument through - now that&#039;s a challenge. I can almost see why Labour and the Lib Dems jumped on the bandwagon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All good stuff, but getting that message across is incredibly difficult. Arguing that the deficit isn&#8217;t that disastrous is complicated, for example:</p>
<p><a href="http://tom.acrewoods.net/2010/01/04/a-dangerous-and-remarkable-delusion" rel="nofollow">http://tom.acrewoods.net/2010/01/04/a-dangerous-and-remarkable-delusion</a></p>
<p>People much prefer to think of government finances like household finances. You want to get rid of your debts pronto, and any more spending will just make stuff worse.</p>
<p>Darren Johnson wrote a piece for CiF recently about London&#8217;s economy, and got harangued by comments focused on his proposals for spending:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/21/boris-bankers-city-london" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/21/boris-bankers-city-london</a></p>
<p>Getting the argument across quickly, and in a way that makes sense to the average person who isn&#8217;t going to spend a lot of time thinking your argument through &#8211; now that&#8217;s a challenge. I can almost see why Labour and the Lib Dems jumped on the bandwagon.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Ramsay</title>
		<link>http://brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2010/01/we-cant-go-on-like-this-cut-the-deficit-obsession-not-the-deficit/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Ramsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 11:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brightgreenscotland.org/?p=118#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Thanks Peter, this is a really excellent piece. We need to get the message out that, in a time of recession (and often the rest of the time too), public spending pays for itself.

As well as the reasons that you give - investment in the future (both shirt term and long term) it&#039;s also important to explain the multiplier effect to people. I may write a blog post on this, hmmm...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Peter, this is a really excellent piece. We need to get the message out that, in a time of recession (and often the rest of the time too), public spending pays for itself.</p>
<p>As well as the reasons that you give &#8211; investment in the future (both shirt term and long term) it&#8217;s also important to explain the multiplier effect to people. I may write a blog post on this, hmmm&#8230;</p>
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